2.6.1 Export Track to After Effects (CMG ch. 31)

Newbie here. I’m working my way through a CMG tutorial and getting unexpected results with mocha Pro 2.6.1. mocha AE 2.3.0 works perfectly. The attached zip file contains 3 files:
o .doc descrition of the problem
o .aep After Effects project file containing the test comps
o .mocha project from scratch in mocha Pro 2.6.1
The remaining files necessary to test are available on the CMG 5th edition DVD.
Either there’s something basic which I don’t understand or there is a bug in mocha Pro 2.6.1.
I would appreciate some guidance.
Ed

Newbie here. I’m working my way through a CMG tutorial and getting unexpected results with mocha Pro 2.6.1. mocha AE 2.3.0 works perfectly. The attached zip file contains 3 files:

o .doc descrition of the problem
o .aep After Effects project file containing the test comps
o .mocha project from scratch in mocha Pro 2.6.1

The remaining files necessary to test are available on the CMG 5th edition DVD.

Either there’s something basic which I don’t understand or there is a bug in mocha Pro 2.6.1.

I would appreciate some guidance.

Ed

Mary,
The .doc should explain the problem, but basically with 2.6.1, when the .mov camera (not an AE camera) pulls back at starting at 2:00, the overlay starts drifting downward (in AE, not in mocha).
As shown in the .doc, the shapes of Position graphs are nearly identical between mocha Pro 2.6.1 and mocha AE 2.3.0. – it’s just that the Position Y values differ by about 240 pixels.
Subsequent to my original post, I exported the mocha track data as .txt, copied it into a spreadsheet to compare 2.6.1 vs 2.3.0 – the Position Y values vary consistently by approximately 240 pixels. Which led me to conclude that mocha 2.6.1 was not the problem. 2.6.1 just takes a different approach than 2.3.0 to outputting Position Y values.
So I then focused on AE. Why would an offset of 240 pixels for Position Y values cause a problem for AE? And the problem starts when the scale changes. Those are probably two big clues but I haven’t been able to figure it out. I’ve double checked the comp settings, all of which were created by duplicating CMG’s Ex.01. I’ve looked to ensure that various switch settings are the same; turned off OpenGL; rebooted the computer; compared the graphs again; thought about Anchor Point & Position values, etc.
Stumped in Wyoming,
Ed

Mary,

The .doc should explain the problem, but basically with 2.6.1, when the .mov camera (not an AE camera) pulls back at starting at 2:00, the overlay starts drifting downward (in AE, not in mocha).

As shown in the .doc, the shapes of Position graphs are nearly identical between mocha Pro 2.6.1 and mocha AE 2.3.0. – it’s just that the Position Y values differ by about 240 pixels.

Subsequent to my original post, I exported the mocha track data as .txt, copied it into a spreadsheet to compare 2.6.1 vs 2.3.0 – the Position Y values vary consistently by approximately 240 pixels. Which led me to conclude that mocha 2.6.1 was not the problem. 2.6.1 just takes a different approach than 2.3.0 to outputting Position Y values.

So I then focused on AE. Why would an offset of 240 pixels for Position Y values cause a problem for AE? And the problem starts when the scale changes. Those are probably two big clues but I haven’t been able to figure it out. I’ve double checked the comp settings, all of which were created by duplicating CMG’s Ex.01. I’ve looked to ensure that various switch settings are the same; turned off OpenGL; rebooted the computer; compared the graphs again; thought about Anchor Point & Position values, etc.

Stumped in Wyoming,
Ed

To answer your original questions:
o Yes, data is pasted on the first frame.
o Yes, PAR’s are consistent (0.90907 in mocha & 0.91 in AE) but the problem is a lot bigger than a potentially-incorrect PAR.
And I’m back to thinking that the 240 pixel offset in Position Y values is the problem, but can’t figure out what setting in mocha 2.6.1 needs to change. FYI, 240 is 1/2 the clip height of 480.

To answer your original questions:
o Yes, data is pasted on the first frame.
o Yes, PAR’s are consistent (0.90907 in mocha & 0.91 in AE) but the problem is a lot bigger than a potentially-incorrect PAR.

And I’m back to thinking that the 240 pixel offset in Position Y values is the problem, but can’t figure out what setting in mocha 2.6.1 needs to change. FYI, 240 is 1/2 the clip height of 480.

>>Yeah. With mocha pasting into AE, the comps and precomps you apply data to need to be the exact same as the frame size in mocha, or you get odd results<> You need to make sure the size is the same and try aligning the surface to the frame in mocha, in AE make sure you have a precomp of your insert that is the exact same size as the frame size in mocha. Even down to the aspect ratio, exactly. You can use a custom aspect ratio to make them the same if you need to. <<
…o The "Align Surface" button made the problems worse. I would have to take extra steps in After Effects to scale and rotate the overlay. That step is not necessary with mocha AE 2.3.0.
…o Setting a custom PAR in mocha Pro 2.6.1 to 0.91 rather than the default of 0.90907 made the problems worse. Now there is slippage in the first two seconds whereas the overlay previously tracked very nicely in the first two seconds with the default PAR. Apparently, AE displays 0.91 but is actually using a more precise value.
So my questions are:

  1. Do you have an explanation the 240 pixel difference in Position Y values generated by mocha Pro 2.6.1 (incorrect tracking) vs mocha AE 2.3.0 (correct tracking)? Is there any mocha setting by which I can enter an offset or do I have to manipulate within AE or write a computer program to correct this flaw?
  2. Were you actually able to demonstrate that any of the concepts you presented caused the problem, i.e., were you actually able to get mocha Pro 2.6.1 build 4014 to generate output which tracked correctly in AE CS5.5 for this CMG Ex.01 test case?
    Thanks,
    Ed

>>Yeah. With mocha pasting into AE, the comps and precomps you apply data to need to be the exact same as the frame size in mocha, or you get odd results<> You need to make sure the size is the same and try aligning the surface to the frame in mocha, in AE make sure you have a precomp of your insert that is the exact same size as the frame size in mocha. Even down to the aspect ratio, exactly. You can use a custom aspect ratio to make them the same if you need to. <<

…o The "Align Surface" button made the problems worse. I would have to take extra steps in After Effects to scale and rotate the overlay. That step is not necessary with mocha AE 2.3.0.
…o Setting a custom PAR in mocha Pro 2.6.1 to 0.91 rather than the default of 0.90907 made the problems worse. Now there is slippage in the first two seconds whereas the overlay previously tracked very nicely in the first two seconds with the default PAR. Apparently, AE displays 0.91 but is actually using a more precise value.

So my questions are:

  1. Do you have an explanation the 240 pixel difference in Position Y values generated by mocha Pro 2.6.1 (incorrect tracking) vs mocha AE 2.3.0 (correct tracking)? Is there any mocha setting by which I can enter an offset or do I have to manipulate within AE or write a computer program to correct this flaw?

  2. Were you actually able to demonstrate that any of the concepts you presented caused the problem, i.e., were you actually able to get mocha Pro 2.6.1 build 4014 to generate output which tracked correctly in AE CS5.5 for this CMG Ex.01 test case?

Thanks,
Ed

Mary,
Spot on!
My problem was caused by the bug you describe: using the motion blur export Format on interlaced footage.
The fix is to set the export Format to “After Effects Corner Pin [corner pin only, support RG warp and mochaImport]” rather than “After Effects Corner Pin [supports motion blur]”. (I want to clearly document the solution so that others looking at this thread don’t have to spend as much time as I have. Although I learned a lot just trying to solve this problem.)
Now that I have confidence that 2.6.1 can generate correct output, I can move on to other tutorials. Given that 2.6.1 has been out over 3 months, I was beginning to doubt myself – how could what appears to be an obvious bug not have been discovered sooner?
Thanks again for your help.
No longer stumped in Wyoming,
Ed

Mary,

Spot on!

My problem was caused by the bug you describe: using the motion blur export Format on interlaced footage.

The fix is to set the export Format to “After Effects Corner Pin [corner pin only, support RG warp and mochaImport]” rather than “After Effects Corner Pin [supports motion blur]”. (I want to clearly document the solution so that others looking at this thread don’t have to spend as much time as I have. Although I learned a lot just trying to solve this problem.)

Now that I have confidence that 2.6.1 can generate correct output, I can move on to other tutorials. Given that 2.6.1 has been out over 3 months, I was beginning to doubt myself – how could what appears to be an obvious bug not have been discovered sooner?

Thanks again for your help.

No longer stumped in Wyoming,
Ed

Hi Ed,
This may be to do with an interlaced footage defect. This defect is scheduled to be resolved in the next major release.
Try using corner pin without motion blur instead when working on interlaced projects. You can use force motion blur in AE to resolve any blur requirements.
Thank you by the way for excellent information supply. This helps us immensely in resolving these kinds of issues.

Hi Ed,

This may be to do with an interlaced footage defect. This defect is scheduled to be resolved in the next major release.

Try using corner pin without motion blur instead when working on interlaced projects. You can use force motion blur in AE to resolve any blur requirements.

Thank you by the way for excellent information supply. This helps us immensely in resolving these kinds of issues.

Ill take a look! What are the errors/unexpected results you are getting?
Cheers,
Mary

Ill take a look! What are the errors/unexpected results you are getting?

Cheers,
Mary

Yeah. With mocha pasting into AE, the comps and precomps you apply data to need to be the exact same as the frame size in mocha, or you get odd results.
This slippage would be consistent with that sort of offset.
You need to make sure the size is the same and try aligning the surface to the frame in mocha, in AE make sure you have a precomp of your insert that is the exact same size as the frame size in mocha. Even down to the aspect ratio, exactly. You can use a custom aspect ratio to make them the same if you need to.
Cheers,
Mary

Yeah. With mocha pasting into AE, the comps and precomps you apply data to need to be the exact same as the frame size in mocha, or you get odd results.

This slippage would be consistent with that sort of offset.

You need to make sure the size is the same and try aligning the surface to the frame in mocha, in AE make sure you have a precomp of your insert that is the exact same size as the frame size in mocha. Even down to the aspect ratio, exactly. You can use a custom aspect ratio to make them the same if you need to.

Cheers,
Mary