How come even rotobrush 1.0 autotracks animation better than Mocha?

Or am I missing something and I need to adjust my settings in some way? Is it because Mocha is a texture tracker so it can’t track stuff like that

Because rotobrush is looking for edges and mocha is looking for texture, animation doesn’t have a lot of texture, but is real heavy on edges. Also, you can generally just key animation like your example above.

That’s lots of manual keying. AE is slow and propagates every new stroke for ages but it still faster than keying by hand in Mocha. Resolve 17’s New Magic Mask does faster and better in both regards. You guys need to step your game.

Hold on, Mary. Then how does the magnetic spline stick to edges so well in Mocha and Silhouette?

Magnetic spline in Mocha is for creating the shape, then the planar tracker follows the texture of the object for the track, they work differently and separately.

Silhouette has a “planar” feature tracker with an edge finder that can help with shots like this, and it also has Mocha’s planar tracker built in. It just works differently for both methods. This difference is less about us “stepping up our game” and more about how the planar tracker works; it has to have texture to track and that is the long and short of it. Since Mocha is a planar tracker, we haven’t built in a lot of tools for adjusting animated movies in particular. Silhouette might be the better roto tool for you for this particular job.

Obviously, we’d love to have edge snapping not be a manual process in Mocha, but right now our snapping tool only snaps to edges where the user makes keyframes for that. We do not track and edge find at the time time. It’s a nice feature request to think about, however. I can let @martinb know about it as a user request.

I know they do but shouldn’t you take advantage of the tech you already have?! Even Mocha alone has the capacity not to mention that as you say Silhouette has it the edge tracking. Silhouette got the mocha tracker. Shouldn’t that go the other way?! If Silhouette supported video I would just use a node to use Mocha. I know video support is coming in the next major. @martinb said so . Eh I don’t like sequences and videos mess

I already talked about how stroking a roto in Silhouette could be a faster way than splines especially when it comes to adjusting things in another thread Feature Request. Silhouette Spline Creation By Stroke In Mocha!. Let’s face it. Holding S or Alt + S snapping is Rubbish. It gets points into all kinds of places and you need to adjust them anyway. Strokes would make this work faster and save us lots of time. Yet again the tech is already inside the software. It just needs to be applied in other areas.

Resolve let you stroke a roto not to brush it. As I said in that thread , before I even tried Resolve, A stroke better than a brush.

So yeah I still say you need to step up your game and apply the tech you already have in the required area of the software. When it comes to Roto Resolve is already doing better and faster. Powermesh is being challenged by Lockdown.

Thank you for your opinions. I let Martin know to check in here.

ahahaha Oh that western reply that reads like “yeah you’re right we need to step up but sod off”

Oh you edited your reply. Oh that sounds much better now :smiley:

Hi there, interesting discussion.

Is it because Mocha is a texture tracker so it can’t track stuff like that

To answer your original question: For now, as Mary said, the kind of shot you’re showing here is not easily tracked in Mocha. We’re not designed to rotoscope flat-shaded animation. Mocha excels specifically in live-action visual effects.

shouldn’t you take advantage of the tech you already have?!

Yes.
Each tool under the Boris FX banner has its strengths and weaknesses.
We’re also aware people favour one tool over another. While we have every intention of cross-pollinating each tool’s resources over time where it makes sense, we’re also not interested in making every tool in Mocha and Silhouette the same.
The unique nature of both tools is why there are two separate applications and not one.

That doesn’t mean more cross-tool collaboration won’t happen. It just means these things take time. We take all requests and consider where they may fit in the development cycle.

There are a lot more things coming in the future that we can’t talk about just yet.

Note that when we say we take feedback/feature requests/opinions on board but we’re cagey about any further details, this could mean one of several things:

  1. We have features in the works that we can’t talk about publicly which may or may not already include items similar to user suggestions
  2. An idea has been brought up that is significant and worthwhile but needs planning to see if and when it fits into the wider schedule. Feature requests normally get scheduled based on the number of user requests and how much it aligns with our current plans.
  3. A user is demanding something that looks great on paper but they’re also venting because the tool is not working the way they expected. Sometimes this makes it harder to work out what part is the feature request and what part is just letting off steam.
  4. We sometimes can’t dive deep into the minutiae of a new feature request due to time constraints
  5. One or more of the above.

It definitely does not mean “sod off”. :wink: We don’t dismiss any suggestion as pointless, because we’re an earnest bunch who love to help artists.

That really does depend on what you are trying to rotoscope.
Hard edges with simple backgrounds are easy for automated methods to roto, so yes, they will be faster and easier. Auto methods struggle more with soft edges, motion blur, falloff, tiny details, noise and edge turning. If you want anything that stands up to scrutiny in VFX you’re still going to need to manually tweak the results.
While automated methods are improving at an impressive pace, track-assisted manual keyframe roto is not going away just yet.

We’re always looking forward. :slight_smile:

No no no! Martin I’m not saying you should be able to auto roto everything. I NEVER said. I just specifically said that manually tweaking rotos with stroking is a way faster workflow no matter if its soft edges, motion blur, falloff, tiny details, noise and edge turning. And that’s what Resolve let us do. Nor you should remove splines altogether but they should take a back seat. It’s basically kinda rotobrush but with strokes and it works on GPU which of course faster than waiting for Rotobrush propagation for ages after every stroke with 64 GB of memory.

Yeah that’s what I was talking about. Porting features across the other software that makes sense.
It would still nice to have Mocha and Silhouette in one application though mmmmm

I like how you talk to the users of your software or even engage in general to begin with as you would normally do with people. No bullshit corporate speak, no moronic PR. I really like that. You also talk openly about strengths and weaknesses of your software. I’ve noticed that here and in your tutorials. No other western company does that. It’s great! Cos your founder is Russian?!