Matte Issues still.... Inconsistant OFX import to Fusion Studio

Hi,

A couple of issues with the OFX plugin for Mocha Pro… I’m noticing that when importing into Fusion Studio sometimes points are locked and sometimes they are not. Also with corner pin operations sometimes a random number of points are locked. For example, out of four trackers, tracker 1 and 3 will be locked but the other two are not. It took a while to dig this out since the node itself shows an Unlocked state but after much testing and use it seems quite random.

Also, hold out mattes do not seem to be working properly still. Sometimes they work, sometimes they do not. I’m currently working on a shot with no lighting changes and a generous hold out matte with plenty of detail left to track and the the tracker is ignoring the hold out matte. I posted a video showing how the mesh tracker creation will ignore the holdout matte if the mesh is recreated, or hold on to it. Seems like there are still issues with the planar tracker and hold outs too.

Any insights would be appreciated.

I’m also wondering about planned updates. It seems like there are quite a few bugs hanging around and since taking 2021, updates have been few and far between.

I think a) you might enjoy the Beta if you would like more updates more often. :slight_smile:

And b) I am going to loop @martinb in here for potential bug documentation, which we really appreciate and will look into.

He can also add you to the Beta if you are interested.

Hi Mary,

How stable are the beta releases typically and are dev updates logged somewhere? Are beta projects backwards compatible with the latest stable version? That would be key for me since I’m working on jobs where stability and handing-off files is necessary.

More important to me - are all the hold out matte issues I’m having known issues that are being worked on and if so are they improved in the beta?

Also, I’m seeing some other posts referring to the tracking quality in the newer version of mocha being less reliable than older versions like V5. I happen to also have a V5 license and 2021 and V5 do seem to behave differently. I’m wondering if there is a actual difference (I can’t perfectly match shapes to make a true 1 to 1 comparison) in the way the new version tracks, perhaps to accommodate the mesh tracker, or if the tracking algorithm has indeed been notably changed.

I’m also wondering how resolution affects the tracks since now a days I’m typically working on 4 to 6k projects vs HD and 2K projects I would have typically done on V5. I would have assumed that more data would mean better tracking but I could see how added shadow and reflection detail could make things more difficult. If the latter is the case, are there settings that would help with the added confusion that more detail might add to the tracking algorithm?

Thanks for any clarifications!

Beta versions are very much Beta, and so are not guaranteed to be issue free. The point is to find the bugs, pain points, etc, otherwise we would not have a Beta test. If you’re looking for rock solid stability, you might stick to point releases and yearly releases. They’re stable enough to use but not headache free, but they are updated more frequently. It’s a trade off.

Holdout issues are known on older versions but not newer, they have been fixed for a while. What version are you on? If you’re on the most recent version and holdouts “are not working” there’s almost certainly an occlusion in the shot you are not seeing OR there’s a problem with GPU tracking in this particular scene.

There is not a difference in the CPU tracking between older and newer versions of Mocha, but since adding GPU tracking of course the algorithm needed to change to support GPU processing. In some cases, users have found a difference, but those are edge cases where texture is repetitive in the shot itself, like tracking ground planes of grass, etc. If you are having trouble tracking something, switch to CPU tracking and restart Mocha, you’ll have the old school tracker to play with. At old school tracking speeds. Everything is a balance.

Resolution affects tracking, but not in any way other than speed. You can track in proxy mode though to speed up. For 6K projects, I’d absolutely use proxy modes in the Mocha standalone or in your host if you’re using the plugin. Resolution doesn’t do anything but give Mocha more data to work with, for better or worse speed wise.

I will let @martinb respond further, as he may have more input.

A number of Fusion and mesh improvements are addressed in the next version, which you can try out if you contact us.

However, when you refer to importing into Fusion, are you saying that the data you’ve created in Mocha is not the same when you bring it into Fusion? That definitely sounds like a bug and i’d like to see examples so we can address it asap.

The problem with mesh mattes you reported has been fixed and will be available in the next version. If you’d like to test it, we’d love to have you on the beta.

You may find some parts in the beta that are not backwards compatible (we’ve added new interface elements which won’t carry to previous version), so i’d recommend duplicating a project to test with.

Thanks for the additional info. I will try CPU tracking on some shots to see if there are improvements / differences in the results that I’m getting.

I feel like there might still be some holdout issues hanging around. I’m pretty careful to assess my tracks and create holdouts carefully. When having issues I’m typically peeping in with gain/gamma to expose any hidden occlusions, lighting changes etc. It seems weird when an object that is completely held out with padding, is still pulling the track off.

I’m on this version : Version 8.0.3 build 19.gad747e6f19f1 Build Date Mar 15 2021

@martinb Unfortunately I can’t share any of my shots from the film to share examples. The specific issue isn’t concerning the tracking data itself but rather that the tracker points are randomly locked in Fusion. For example, when I export a track and use it as a corner pin in the Fusion Tracker node it gives me the four points as expected. Of these four points sometimes one or two will be locked - or all of them, or sometimes none. So if I need to edit points (in this case I’m having to manually tweak through frames with crazy motion and reflections) I have to unlocked the locked points to animate them. It’s not a huge deal now that I’ve figured out what was happening, but it seems like a bug that they all aren’t locked or unlocked the same. Hope that makes sense! I can shoot a video when I’m not on deadline.

Also, I would be happy to check out the beta when this project is finished. Who would I get in touch with about access?

Thanks!

I’ll add you to the beta now and you can review it at your leisure. You will be notified.

The export issue sounds new to me, so we’ll need to test it to check. It could just be that the format we are exporting is locked by default or something has changed in the format.

Which version of Fusion are you using btw? Be aware that Fusion 17.2 and onwards changed something that can cause problems with some OFX tools including ours. We have a fix incoming to work around their change.

Hey Martin,

I’m currently using the latest version 17.2 but am not having any significant stability issues. That said, I always paste in tracks, shapes and export stMaps vs using the Mocha renderer in the node to avoid stability issues and slow viewport and render times. I’ve found the node implementation to be buggy and have avoided it all together. I’ve had limited crashes from the Mocha app when launched. There has been some issues where the UI lags very badly but it’s usually fixed on a relaunch of Fusion itself. For context I’m using Mocha for a pretty heavy workload on this show (100+ shots) and outside of what I’ve reported it seems stable. It would be nice if the node within Fusion was more reliable but being able to paste in mitigates the need, for me anyway. My only pain point here is having to past in tracks and shapes separately. A generate tracker (and shapes button) within the node like in the Nuke and Fusion Trackers would be amazing…

Thanks for adding me to the beta!

Thanks. We’ve had a similar request before for the “generate” button. We have this in the After Effects version of the plugin, but because we support multiple OFX hosts, it’s much more difficult to make a one-size-fits-all button for each one.
But we do have the request logged and think it’s a good idea!

Great to hear, that would be a huge time saver. A lot of time is spent going back and forth between Mocha and the host app.