Multiple removes

Hi, I have a question about doing multiple removes in a row.
As an example I would like to refer to Martins tutorial, which however, left some important questions open:
http://www.imagineersystems.com/videos/mocha-pro-digital-makeup-and-beauty/view
Summary:
First he removes the blemish on the nose.
In a second pass he replaces the lips with colored ones.
Step by step:

  1. (Track Tab) First he tracks the nose, creates the blemish spline above it and links it to the nose track. OK.
  2. (Remove Tab) Then he creates a cleanplate for frame 1, does the photoshop work, then uses linear interpolation to remove the blemish while adjusting for the brightness.
    Question No. 1: Why did he not chose “use cleanplates exclusively”, and why did it work? (in every frame except the cleanplate, the blemish is there. So, no information can be drawn from them)
  3. (Track Tab) Then he tracks the lips, creates the spline for the lips and links it to the track.
  4. (Remove Tab) Now he creates a second cleanplate on the last frame (49).
  5. (Photoshop) Here the blemish is back on the last frame (49). Martin says this won’t matter, because he will use the “Blemish Remove” clip as a basis for the lip work.
    Question No 2:
    Unfortunately, he does not refer back to that when doing the lip removal in Mocha. So, how exactly can he base the second remove pass on the first one?
    On closely inspecting the tutorial video, I could not find any hint to that, neither in the “Input Clip” parameter within the remove tab, nor in the upper footage tab above the viewing panel.
    Please help me out here.
    Kind regards,
    Andreas
1 Like

Hi Mary,

thank you. However, I am still confused about multipass removes. And I have the impression that mocha is still buggy in that module.

To clarify the multi pass workflow:

  1. (track tab) I would track background and foreground
  2. (remove tab) I would activate the foreground layer’s cog wheel and click “create” to generate a cleanplate image.

Note 1:

  • the dropdown “Cleanplate clip” populates with something like “Cleanplate4_myclipname”
  • The edit button becomes available for that layer. However, sometimes it deactives and I cannot edit the list anymore. Then after some switching back and forth it becomes available again.
  • whe clicking “create” on multiple frames (to create multiple cleanplate images) the list under “Edit” will not populate. It still only holds the first image. Nothing else. Is this correct behavior?

Assuming the first pass is done. Now on to the second pass.

I would choose my first result clip in the upper dropdown “Clip to show in the main window”. Called “Remove_myclipname”
I also would chose that clip as the “input clip” in the “input” tab.

Note2:

  • I will get a “Remove_Remove_myclipname” clip as the result. So after e.g. 4 passes I would have a resulting image sequence called “Remove_Remove_Remove_Remove_myclipname” ? (a name which would not show completely in any of the clip dropdown lists)
    The way to avoid that would be to click “New” under Output and give a name of you own. Correct?

What I get utterly confused by is:

What exactly is a cleanplate clip?
I always have one or multiple cleanplate images. What is the relation between a cleanplate clip and a cleanplate image? Why don’t my multiple created cleanplates show in the “Edit” dialog after I created them via “Create”?

Is it correct that different layers can have

  • different input clips
  • different cleanplate clips

If so, it would be extremely helpfull to see a tutorial that adresses such more complex tasks. And explains the handling of multiple Output, Input and Cleanplate Clips.

The simple stuff is explained all around the net. The complex cases not. And the documentation is a bit short on that.

That would be really great :wink: Kind regards,
Andreas

P.S. If you want me to send you cases that I assume to be bugs please say so.

Hi Mary, thank you very much for your help.
It mostly makes sense now. And also the “From Start to Finish (Elf)” tutorial was very helpfull. Real world examples like these are extremely valuable. Thanks a lot for that!
One thing that I assume is a bug:
When I first enter the “Remove” tab, several of my layers have the cog wheel activated. However, as soon as I select a single layer to modify its parameters, the cog wheels go away and only my selected layer has it active.
And I cannot activate multiple cogwheels anymore except when I have those layers simultaneously selected in the layer stack. And again, as soon as I click on a singe layer, all other cog wheel go away.
This does not make sense to me, or did I understand the concept wrong?
Interesting: this does not apply to bins. The bins keep their cog wheels. The layers loose them.
Kind regards,
Andreas

Hi Mary,
thank you. However, I am still confused about multipass removes. And I have the impression that mocha is still buggy in that module.
To clarify the multi pass workflow:

  1. (track tab) I would track background and foreground
  2. (remove tab) I would activate the foreground layer’s cog wheel and click “create” to generate a cleanplate image.
    Note 1:
  • the dropdown “Cleanplate clip” populates with something like “Cleanplate4_myclipname”
  • The edit button becomes available for that layer. However, sometimes it deactives and I cannot edit the list anymore. Then after some switching back and forth it becomes available again.
  • whe clicking “create” on multiple frames (to create multiple cleanplate images) the list under “Edit” will not populate. It still only holds the first image. Nothing else. Is this correct behavior?
    Assuming the first pass is done. Now on to the second pass.
    I would choose my first result clip in the upper dropdown “Clip to show in the main window”. Called “Remove_myclipname”
    I also would chose that clip as the “input clip” in the “input” tab.
    Note2:
  • I will get a “Remove_Remove_myclipname” clip as the result. So after e.g. 4 passes I would have a resulting image sequence called “Remove_Remove_Remove_Remove_myclipname” ? (a name which would not show completely in any of the clip dropdown lists)
    The way to avoid that would be to click “New” under Output and give a name of you own. Correct?
    What I get utterly confused by is:
    What exactly is a cleanplate clip?
    I always have one or multiple cleanplate images. What is the relation between a cleanplate clip and a cleanplate image? Why don’t my multiple created cleanplates show in the “Edit” dialog after I created them via “Create”?
    Is it correct that different layers can have
  • different input clips
  • different cleanplate clips
    If so, it would be extremely helpfull to see a tutorial that adresses such more complex tasks. And explains the handling of multiple Output, Input and Cleanplate Clips.
    The simple stuff is explained all around the net. The complex cases not. And the documentation is a bit short on that.
    That would be really great :wink: Kind regards,
    Andreas
    P.S. If you want me to send you cases that I assume to be bugs please say so.

Hi Mary, thank you very much for your help.

It mostly makes sense now. And also the “From Start to Finish (Elf)” tutorial was very helpfull. Real world examples like these are extremely valuable. Thanks a lot for that!

One thing that I assume is a bug:
When I first enter the “Remove” tab, several of my layers have the cog wheel activated. However, as soon as I select a single layer to modify its parameters, the cog wheels go away and only my selected layer has it active.
And I cannot activate multiple cogwheels anymore except when I have those layers simultaneously selected in the layer stack. And again, as soon as I click on a singe layer, all other cog wheel go away.

This does not make sense to me, or did I understand the concept wrong?

Interesting: this does not apply to bins. The bins keep their cog wheels. The layers loose them.

Kind regards,
Andreas

Mary, thanks!
BTW: This is what brought me to the multi pass remove in the first place. Only when I saw your “From Start to Finish” tutorial, I learned that I should be able to do multiple replaces simultaneously.
Best wishes,
Andreas

Mary, thanks!

BTW: This is what brought me to the multi pass remove in the first place. Only when I saw your “From Start to Finish” tutorial, I learned that I should be able to do multiple replaces simultaneously.

Best wishes,
Andreas

Hi, I have a question about doing multiple removes in a row.

As an example I would like to refer to Martins tutorial, which however, left some important questions open:

http://www.imagineersystems.com/videos/mocha-pro-digital-makeup-and-beauty/view

Summary:
First he removes the blemish on the nose.
In a second pass he replaces the lips with colored ones.

Step by step:

  1. (Track Tab) First he tracks the nose, creates the blemish spline above it and links it to the nose track. OK.

  2. (Remove Tab) Then he creates a cleanplate for frame 1, does the photoshop work, then uses linear interpolation to remove the blemish while adjusting for the brightness.

Question No. 1: Why did he not chose “use cleanplates exclusively”, and why did it work? (in every frame except the cleanplate, the blemish is there. So, no information can be drawn from them)

  1. (Track Tab) Then he tracks the lips, creates the spline for the lips and links it to the track.

  2. (Remove Tab) Now he creates a second cleanplate on the last frame (49).

  3. (Photoshop) Here the blemish is back on the last frame (49). Martin says this won’t matter, because he will use the “Blemish Remove” clip as a basis for the lip work.

Question No 2:
Unfortunately, he does not refer back to that when doing the lip removal in Mocha. So, how exactly can he base the second remove pass on the first one?
On closely inspecting the tutorial video, I could not find any hint to that, neither in the “Input Clip” parameter within the remove tab, nor in the upper footage tab above the viewing panel.

Please help me out here.

Kind regards,
Andreas

Hi Andreas,

I think you may be running into a multiple selection bug, just lick off of the layers and select the cog on the layer you need to remove. I’ll check out bug list.

Cheers,
Mary

Hi there,
The lack of using cleanplates exclusively is probably just a fluke in the render from the screen capture, it should be checked.
I believe what he is saying about the lips is he will use the frame he has already taken for the blemish remove and use that as the other frame for the lips, but he will still have to paint it and load it into the lip clip.
Does that make more sense?
Cheers,
Mary

Hi there,

The lack of using cleanplates exclusively is probably just a fluke in the render from the screen capture, it should be checked.

I believe what he is saying about the lips is he will use the frame he has already taken for the blemish remove and use that as the other frame for the lips, but he will still have to paint it and load it into the lip clip.

Does that make more sense?

Cheers,
Mary

—Quote—
To clarify the multi pass workflow:

  1. (track tab) I would track background and foreground
  2. (remove tab) I would activate the foreground layer’s cog wheel and click “create” to generate a cleanplate image.
    Note 1:
  • the dropdown “Cleanplate clip” populates with something like “Cleanplate4_myclipname”
  • The edit button becomes available for that layer. However, sometimes it deactives and I cannot edit the list anymore. Then after some switching back and forth it becomes available again.
  • whe clicking “create” on multiple frames (to create multiple cleanplate images) the list under “Edit” will not populate. It still only holds the first image. Nothing else. Is this correct behavior?
    —End Quote—
    If the edit button deactivated it is probably because you are not selected on the layer when you try to edit it. When you create more than one cleanplate you must load them all back in as a NEW cleanplate, or EDIT your single frame cleanplate to include your other cleanplate frames, putting them in at the frames you pulled them from. This is in our documentation of the remove tab as well.
    —Quote—
    Assuming the first pass is done. Now on to the second pass.
    I would choose my first result clip in the upper dropdown “Clip to show in the main window”. Called “Remove_myclipname”
    I also would chose that clip as the “input clip” in the “input” tab.
    Note2:
  • I will get a “Remove_Remove_myclipname” clip as the result. So after e.g. 4 passes I would have a resulting image sequence called “Remove_Remove_Remove_Remove_myclipname” ? (a name which would not show completely in any of the clip dropdown lists)
    The way to avoid that would be to click “New” under Output and give a name of you own. Correct?
    —End Quote—
    You can also edit the cleanplate clip itself in the clip tab, by clicking on the far left clip tab in the sequence of main tabs in mocha.
    —Quote—
    What I get utterly confused by is:
    What exactly is a cleanplate clip?
    I always have one or multiple cleanplate images. What is the relation between a cleanplate clip and a cleanplate image? Why don’t my multiple created cleanplates show in the “Edit” dialog after I created them via “Create”?
    —End Quote—
    Cleanplate clips are what hold your cleanplate images inside them for mocha to reference as the “good” frames of the shot. You also have a remove clip that is what mocha is rendering as your result into your results folder.
    —Quote—
    Is it correct that different layers can have
  • different input clips
  • different cleanplate clips
    If so, it would be extremely helpfull to see a tutorial that adresses such more complex tasks. And explains the handling of multiple Output, Input and Cleanplate Clips.
    —End Quote—
    Yes, it is correct that different layers can have different input clips. I am working on an interface tutorial right now.
    —Quote—
    The simple stuff is explained all around the net. The complex cases not. And the documentation is a bit short on that.
    —End Quote—
    We explain a lot in our documentation as well. In order to do more complex tutorials we need more complex footage from users like you. If you have a good footage example you’d like to see a tutorial of and we can get permission to use it, and we think they’d make a good tutorial for us to create, we’d be happy make some tutorials out of them.
    I hope that makes things more clear!
    Mary

—Quote—
To clarify the multi pass workflow:

  1. (track tab) I would track background and foreground
  2. (remove tab) I would activate the foreground layer’s cog wheel and click “create” to generate a cleanplate image.

Note 1:

  • the dropdown “Cleanplate clip” populates with something like “Cleanplate4_myclipname”
  • The edit button becomes available for that layer. However, sometimes it deactives and I cannot edit the list anymore. Then after some switching back and forth it becomes available again.
  • whe clicking “create” on multiple frames (to create multiple cleanplate images) the list under “Edit” will not populate. It still only holds the first image. Nothing else. Is this correct behavior?
    —End Quote—
    If the edit button deactivated it is probably because you are not selected on the layer when you try to edit it. When you create more than one cleanplate you must load them all back in as a NEW cleanplate, or EDIT your single frame cleanplate to include your other cleanplate frames, putting them in at the frames you pulled them from. This is in our documentation of the remove tab as well.

—Quote—
Assuming the first pass is done. Now on to the second pass.

I would choose my first result clip in the upper dropdown “Clip to show in the main window”. Called “Remove_myclipname”
I also would chose that clip as the “input clip” in the “input” tab.

Note2:

  • I will get a “Remove_Remove_myclipname” clip as the result. So after e.g. 4 passes I would have a resulting image sequence called “Remove_Remove_Remove_Remove_myclipname” ? (a name which would not show completely in any of the clip dropdown lists)
    The way to avoid that would be to click “New” under Output and give a name of you own. Correct?
    —End Quote—
    You can also edit the cleanplate clip itself in the clip tab, by clicking on the far left clip tab in the sequence of main tabs in mocha.

—Quote—
What I get utterly confused by is:

What exactly is a cleanplate clip?
I always have one or multiple cleanplate images. What is the relation between a cleanplate clip and a cleanplate image? Why don’t my multiple created cleanplates show in the “Edit” dialog after I created them via “Create”?
—End Quote—
Cleanplate clips are what hold your cleanplate images inside them for mocha to reference as the “good” frames of the shot. You also have a remove clip that is what mocha is rendering as your result into your results folder.

—Quote—
Is it correct that different layers can have

  • different input clips
  • different cleanplate clips

If so, it would be extremely helpfull to see a tutorial that adresses such more complex tasks. And explains the handling of multiple Output, Input and Cleanplate Clips.
—End Quote—
Yes, it is correct that different layers can have different input clips. I am working on an interface tutorial right now.

—Quote—
The simple stuff is explained all around the net. The complex cases not. And the documentation is a bit short on that.
—End Quote—
We explain a lot in our documentation as well. In order to do more complex tutorials we need more complex footage from users like you. If you have a good footage example you’d like to see a tutorial of and we can get permission to use it, and we think they’d make a good tutorial for us to create, we’d be happy make some tutorials out of them.

I hope that makes things more clear!
Mary

Hi Andreas,
I think you may be running into a multiple selection bug, just lick off of the layers and select the cog on the layer you need to remove. I’ll check out bug list.
Cheers,
Mary