Remove or Insert : WWMPD ? ;)

Hey there,

Last time I posted, it was more a Fusion topic than a Mocha one, so now, this won’t be half off-topic…

So I’ve solved and tracked tons of projects in Mocha for years but here I have this challenge goal I was given by a co-worker where I could wipe out a lot of garbage leaning against a wall, in a warehouse visited by to people…
I have 3 tracks + a wide BG one + the one to be removed (always smaller and included inside the spline of the BG one below).
I made a good cleanplate and managed to create 4-5 more by rendering actual frames, but maybe because the surface is large, I cannot go further and encounter random issues when trying to go on (weird behavior, or nothing happens anymore at remove render time etc…)

I’m a bit lost, even if I can consider myself as experienced after so many successful projects during so many years (my last Mocha issue was waaaay past and about previous keyframed modified by a next one, over…)

However, not so bad cleanplates, moreover before color grading, look :

… and I don’t want to overload the thread but I have 5-6 like this. nothing anymore against the wall on the left nor against the left back one. However, I cannot have’em used anymore for some obscure reason…

Didn’t try any insert instead so far, should I ? Should I (am I allowed actually) post real files check to you Mary ?
WWMPD huh :slight_smile:

Can you see the surface all the way through the shot? Does it warp or shrink dramatically?

Hey Martin, happy to read you, thx to answer.

Well yes, even if just a small part only appears in the very beginning of the shot (see below), we can see it all the way through the shot.
Actually, I made a manual track all along the 236 frames and I slightly displaced the surface and the spline so that the surface would always stick to the part to be removed. The track underneath is always wider than the one to be removed…

What’s weird is that I messed up something because 5 cleanplates out 6 are created from what resulted from Mocha’s previous render : it had worked on a few frames and I exported some from what looked fine on the TL.

Now, at this point I have 6 good cleanplates + a manual tracked surface all along the tracked to be removed + a wider tracked layer underneath I could re-do if needed.
And for some reasons the “render current frame” on the remove tab only works on the 6 frames which have existing cleanplates, even if I untick “cleanplates only” or whatever (I think I tested almost any combination).
What d’you think ?
And also, given these existing cleanplates + tracked layers etc…, what would be the best way* to re-do another project ? (*layer properties for each layer, track tab and remove tab parameters,…)
I thought about copy/paste the dopesheet surface track in another project maybe… i’m a bit lost, I wasn’t in this situation for years…

Does it warp or shrink dramatically?

Actually, I re-checked and yes, though the layer to remove is quite clean (what a surprise, I did it manually all the way), the spline and surface of the BG track underneath includes crazy jumps I didn’t notice. I’ll fix it.

BTW, since I have good cleanplates, what if I put the BG spline and surface track at barely the same place with Ü key all along. Finally I just need a big plane under the remove layer, would it work ?

Hi Sam,

I will repost what I put in our email here:

I don’t see a lot of lighting shifts, so patching might be faster. But what you really need to do to fix this is track the different planes separately and don’t include the junk in the track.

Roto the people out with a garbage matte, but get tight roto on the arm that passes over the junk to be removed.
Use a holdout mask on the junk on one layer, this is your remove layer and where you will put your cleanplates, and you have to use cleanplates for this. Below these layers you will need to…
Track the back wall.
Track the side wall.
Track the floor.

Connect all your walls and floor shapes with the “join layers” tool.

Try a remove with that and see how it works. If it still looks back, simply use the patch method.

Damn, I just replied by email too :blush: The 1st email was above all to send you files too. So I repost here too and remain here for the potential next posts.

(Yeah, the junk in the track, obviously…)

Now, you’re answer is very clear, but a couple of questions pops up at this point :

  • What d’you technically mean by “patching” specifically ? using a wide insert of the whole left part of the image instead of the Remove ?
  • About the holdout mask I’m about to do on the junk, you mean a x-spline with say 20 points to surround the whole junk ? and what about the surface of this layer btw ?

Anyway, thwx again so much


Cannot edit the above post, but anyway I have to follow your recommendations now. Thx a lot Mary - and Martin too - it’s clear and just a question popped up : the remove is made “putting a hole” inside the boundaries of the spline or those of the surface ?
Because for the insert I know it’s the surface area which counts, but I’m not so sure now about the remove

Remove is based on the masks specifically.

Ok, thank you Martin.
So after years of removing, inserting and solving, I’ve come to doubt about it because of the fail of this project. I’ve done 60% now and I’ll post for sure about the results…

Just FYI, I won against this tricky project :wink: Mainly thanks to Mary’s suggestions, I must say…
Making 3 parts and being very focused on the BG track quality was the solution.
Finally, after dozens and dozens of removals, we still keep learning ;

Now, it also raised a few questions and I’ll share some with you in another topic, since the specific project is fixed and over now.
One more time, thx for your quick and helping answers.

Nice to meet you at Adobe Max, I am glad you got this shot sorted!