Very strange keyframe and track behaviour after reopening an existing projects

hi,
i have a similar problem…
i have to track a 12 min long clip, so i track then adjust, then track etc.

during the work i don’t get any visible problem… my surface is fine all the time, follows perfectly my adjustments… until i close my project. when i reopen the project again my surface goes crazy. the four reference points of the adjustment track are still looking correct on all the keyframes i’ve made, but the surface does not align to them…
the x-spline look also correct (except few times where it goes also crazy between some keyframes, but it could be due to the keyframes, though i didn’t notice this before closing the project)…

when i try to fix the surface by drugging it’s corners, aligning them to the correspondent reference points, the surface will align only on that frame and then it will slowly go off the right position…

and this happened not only on one project…

first question: why it could happened? should i do something before closing a project in order to ovoid this?

second: is it possible now to restore the surface somehow?

i’m really desperate don’t know what to do…
could anybody help?

thanx a lot

Hi Serge,

Please email me the file at: martinb [at] imagineersystems(dot)com.

However I’m surprised you had to do any adjusted track on that footage. If you can also send me a compressed clean plate of that clip I will see if I can help you achieve a better track.

Hi Serge,
Please email me the file at: martinb [at] imagineersystems(dot)com.
However I’m surprised you had to do any adjusted track on that footage. If you can also send me a compressed clean plate of that clip I will see if I can help you achieve a better track.

Hi serge,

In terms of the odd behaviour I am still investigating.

As to the track, the reason you are probably having to adjust is the grid you are tracking is too regular, and therefore the tracker is having trouble finding the same place in motion as it could easily find another part of the grid to lock to.

I’d suggest creating a spline around the top of the grid and the half-circle clips at the top. This should give you a solid enough track that you should only have to do minor adjustments.

I will continue to look into the adjusted track issue.

Hi serge,
In terms of the odd behaviour I am still investigating.
As to the track, the reason you are probably having to adjust is the grid you are tracking is too regular, and therefore the tracker is having trouble finding the same place in motion as it could easily find another part of the grid to lock to.
I’d suggest creating a spline around the top of the grid and the half-circle clips at the top. This should give you a solid enough track that you should only have to do minor adjustments.
I will continue to look into the adjusted track issue.

—Quote (Originally by serge-m)—
Hi Martin,

yes… - a regular grid is too “regular”. I have another shot in which a page with such a grid is filmed from the top to the botton. Man, that was a hard one…
Next time I’ll use random points :wink:

And concerning to your investigation: I’m really wondering if this is a bug, that happend after reopening a project…

Greetings to you

Serge
—End Quote—
I’ll explain what I mean by too regular:

Say you have a planar surface that has features which are distinctly regular, like your grid in the book or windows on a far away building. If the motion of the object between the frames is greater than the distance between these regular features, the tracker can lock on to the next set of features along in the pattern as it can’t discern the difference between one area of features and another.

If your grid was further spaced apart or there was less motion, you may not see the problem, as the tracker can’t confuse between one set of tracking detail and another.

The other thing you can try is reducing the Horizontal and Vertical Search area to a smaller value and use smaller areas on the grid using the “add X-Spline to layer” tool.

All in all, it is very clean footage so you should be able to get a solid track without adjustment.

In terms of the adjust track it is going to take a while to work out what is going on. I will get back to you as soon as we know what is causing it.

—Quote (Originally by serge-m)—
Hi Martin,
yes… - a regular grid is too “regular”. I have another shot in which a page with such a grid is filmed from the top to the botton. Man, that was a hard one…
Next time I’ll use random points :wink:
And concerning to your investigation: I’m really wondering if this is a bug, that happend after reopening a project…
Greetings to you
Serge
—End Quote—
I’ll explain what I mean by too regular:
Say you have a planar surface that has features which are distinctly regular, like your grid in the book or windows on a far away building. If the motion of the object between the frames is greater than the distance between these regular features, the tracker can lock on to the next set of features along in the pattern as it can’t discern the difference between one area of features and another.
If your grid was further spaced apart or there was less motion, you may not see the problem, as the tracker can’t confuse between one set of tracking detail and another.
The other thing you can try is reducing the Horizontal and Vertical Search area to a smaller value and use smaller areas on the grid using the “add X-Spline to layer” tool.
All in all, it is very clean footage so you should be able to get a solid track without adjustment.
In terms of the adjust track it is going to take a while to work out what is going on. I will get back to you as soon as we know what is causing it.

hi,
i have a similar problem…
i have to track a 12 min long clip, so i track then adjust, then track etc.
during the work i don’t get any visible problem… my surface is fine all the time, follows perfectly my adjustments… until i close my project. when i reopen the project again my surface goes crazy. the four reference points of the adjustment track are still looking correct on all the keyframes i’ve made, but the surface does not align to them…
the x-spline look also correct (except few times where it goes also crazy between some keyframes, but it could be due to the keyframes, though i didn’t notice this before closing the project)…
when i try to fix the surface by drugging it’s corners, aligning them to the correspondent reference points, the surface will align only on that frame and then it will slowly go off the right position…
and this happened not only on one project…
first question: why it could happened? should i do something before closing a project in order to ovoid this?
second: is it possible now to restore the surface somehow?
i’m really desperate don’t know what to do…
could anybody help?
thanx a lot

Hi All,

I’m new here and I use Mocha from time to time.
First of all - Mocha is good !!! Best tracker I’ve found.

Well, now to some issues:

At the moment I use Moche for a job. At first everything works fine. Mocha did an excellent job and I did some fine adjustments with quite a lot keyframes by hitting the “Auto” button (below the ‘Nudge’ Section) for each of the four corners.
I copyed the track to AE CS4 and I am satisfied with the result:

Movie 1 (ok) (http://www.serge-mustu.de/tempos/ok2.mov)

When I closed Mocha…

After I reopend it, all of the sudden I saw all my tracking work went crazy:

Movie 2 (not ok) (http://www.serge-mustu.de/tempos/not-ok2.mov)

I did nothing - I just opend the file again…
It seems that the interpolation went from spline to linear…
Can anybody please tell me, what’s going on here and how I get my work back ?

Thank you

Serge

Hi All,
I’m new here and I use Mocha from time to time.
First of all - Mocha is good !!! Best tracker I’ve found.
Well, now to some issues:
At the moment I use Moche for a job. At first everything works fine. Mocha did an excellent job and I did some fine adjustments with quite a lot keyframes by hitting the “Auto” button (below the ‘Nudge’ Section) for each of the four corners.
I copyed the track to AE CS4 and I am satisfied with the result:
Movie 1 (ok) (http://www.serge-mustu.de/tempos/ok2.mov)
When I closed Mocha…
After I reopend it, all of the sudden I saw all my tracking work went crazy:
Movie 2 (not ok) (http://www.serge-mustu.de/tempos/not-ok2.mov)
I did nothing - I just opend the file again…
It seems that the interpolation went from spline to linear…
Can anybody please tell me, what’s going on here and how I get my work back ?
Thank you
Serge

—Quote (Originally by martinb)—
Hi Serge,

Please email me the file at: martinb [at] imagineersystems(dot)com.

However I’m surprised you had to do any adjusted track on that footage. If you can also send me a compressed clean plate of that clip I will see if I can help you achieve a better track.
—End Quote—
Hi Martin,

did you got my files yesterday ?
And any hints yet…?

Greetings

Serge

—Quote (Originally by martinb)—
Hi Serge,
Please email me the file at: martinb [at] imagineersystems(dot)com.
However I’m surprised you had to do any adjusted track on that footage. If you can also send me a compressed clean plate of that clip I will see if I can help you achieve a better track.
—End Quote—
Hi Martin,
did you got my files yesterday ?
And any hints yet…?
Greetings
Serge

—Quote (Originally by martinb)—

As to the track, the reason you are probably having to adjust is the grid you are tracking is too regular, and therefore the tracker is having trouble finding the same place in motion as it could easily find another part of the grid to lock to.


—End Quote—
Hi Martin,

yes… - a regular grid is too “regular”. I have another shot in which a page with such a grid is filmed from the top to the botton. Man, that was a hard one…
Next time I’ll use random points :wink:

And concerning to your investigation: I’m really wondering if this is a bug, that happend after reopening a project…

Greetings to you

Serge

—Quote (Originally by martinb)—

As to the track, the reason you are probably having to adjust is the grid you are tracking is too regular, and therefore the tracker is having trouble finding the same place in motion as it could easily find another part of the grid to lock to.

—End Quote—
Hi Martin,
yes… - a regular grid is too “regular”. I have another shot in which a page with such a grid is filmed from the top to the botton. Man, that was a hard one…
Next time I’ll use random points :wink:
And concerning to your investigation: I’m really wondering if this is a bug, that happend after reopening a project…
Greetings to you
Serge